Many thanks for the brand new price that i had not viewed before

I am not sure if you had entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or otherwise not, whilst try authored once the a reference to possess People in america having colonial ancestors from Plantagenet ancestry. The guy provides as one of their evidences one to Joanna try brand new mommy off Gwladus Ddu the truth that Llewelyn offered the fresh new functions of Knighton and Norton castles inside Shropshire in order to Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and you will Gwladus have been hitched. It would was illegal to have Llewelyn to give Joanna’s assets to a keen illegitimate child (otherwise individual who wasn’t a baby away from Joanna). The brand new functions of Norton and you may Knighton stayed about Mortimer nearest and dearest after that. The new quotation are, “If the fresh new Queen render Homes to a person which have an effective woman off their kindred inside honest relationship, while the woman dyeth instead point, the man in the Kings situation shall perhaps not hold it to possess their existence, since lady was the cause of brand new gift.” Put another way, new functions would have reverted back into the newest top ahead of it could have been made available to an infant who was maybe not Joanna’s.

Hey, Marilyn, I did not get access to the newest Plantaganet Ancestry because of the Doug Richardson, but did gain access to many talks related to your and you may their ideas along with other genealogists (particular having your, but many as well as facing). I believe, as i stated in my prior papers, you to definitely exactly what shifts it personally(Joanna being the mom out-of Gwladus), ’s the import of your own qualities you mention to Ralph de- Mortimer through to his ed two of the students ‘John‘ and you may ‘Joan.‘ I cannot that is amazing in the event the Gwladus is the ded their unique college students ergo. Inspite of the arguments between the eminent genealogists We mention over, there is an over-all opinion one Gwladus Ddu are fairly identified as the brand new daughter out of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth because of the Joanna, daughter (then legitimised) of John, Queen out of The united kingdomt. I would ike to grab it opportunity to go along with Sharon (during the an email in my experience) one Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian are of the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and so being bloodstream sister to Gruffudd. We base it partly towards a modern checklist used in ‘Regal or any other Historic letters Illustrative of the reign regarding Henry 111,‘ modified by Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. To the pages 500-503 ’s the transcript off an original page old Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, so you can Queen Henry 111. Within letter, Marshall talks about his siege of your castles of Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. He listings the people he based in the palace O’Realy whenever it surrendered, it provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I am told that the implies that you will find right here Gwenllian, child off Prince llywelyn, just who appears to be named ‘sibling away from Gruffudd.‘ As you may know Gruffudd to be the fresh illegitimate son from Llywelyn, it’s drawn you to ‘de patre et matre‘ means Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd were full blood sister and you can sister. Had Gwenllian started Joanna’s daughter which King Henry’s niece, positively Marshall will have mentioned on that fact? Which inability out-of de- Lacy’s spouse due to the fact king’s relative, try removed as near certain evidence one Gwenllian wasn’t the new child of your king’s cousin Joanna.

These types of qualities have been element of Joanna’s maritagium away from her father King John

Ken: Thank you for you to definitely reference to Gwenllian. I am not an expert genealogist, but I really do a lot of search by myself traces. I women turkish think some of the “pros” are incredibly envious and you will upset of each and every other (at the very least seemingly ways in a few of all things it blog post). You will find points that we are not gonna understand confidently on the members of the fresh new MA while they did not continue public record information eg we would today, very genealogists and you may historians have to use their best judgment inside the sorting things out. In fact, vital records is a fairly “new” layout – of numerous says within the us don’t keep info regarding births and you will fatalities before early 1900’s. I belong to numerous ancestry societies in which I have had in order to show 11 otherwise several generations, and trust in me it is not easy. Thus i very enjoy the difficulty off contrasting MA forefathers. (As well as the unfortunate issue is that the ideas that exist towards the MA is actually of your own royalty and you may nobility – little anyway toward popular anybody).